ARENA water instinct

IN THE ARENA

Larisa Ilchenko (RUS) Vs Keri Anne Payne (GBR)

Olympic And World Champs Go The Distance

The world's top two women marathon swimmers, the latest protagonists in our How Rivals Square Up feature, say that they pay little regard to what their rivals are up to for one very good reason: they have enough on their plates just dealing with what they need to do to remain queens of the 10km course.

In the red corner from Russia, Larisa Ilchenko, inaugural Olympic marathon champion and a woman with a record of gold medals in open water that is second to none. Between 2004 and 2008 Ilchenko won every 5km and 10km world crown she competed for, five titles over 5km and three over 10km.

In the blue corner, Keri-Anne Payne, Olympic silver medallist who stepped up to become world champion over 10km in Rome last year in a race from which Ilchenko had to retire without finishing. Payne goes down in history as the first Olympic pool swimmer (she raced 200m and 400m medley in Beijing 2008) ever to make the Olympic marathon podium.

Like the marathon men we featured recently in this series, Ilchenko and Payne are as exceptional as they are exceptionally hard-working. To those who cannot quite fathom what it means to cover 10km in about 2 hours, pop down to your local baths, try and cover 100m in 1min 15sec and then imagine doing that 100 times over without a break and sometimes in waters fit to chill, the spill of which is prone to make the uninitiated sick and disorientated.

To achieve the stamina and fitness required for one of the toughest tests in world sport, Ilchenko covers about 20km in training a day, while Payne notes her biggest set as being 18 X 800m on 10 mins (try that one, and see how you go) descending 1st to 6th X 3. "Getting through that session was a case of knowing that it would be a great achievement to finish it," says Payne with not a little insight into how great athletes deal with pain.

Both athletes in this feature note the importance of the men on the deck who set them a task and then help them to get through it with a view to the battle come race day.

"I've been working with Vladimir Nickolaevitch Zakharov since I was 11 years old. So it makes ten years already. He has a chance to see me more often than my own mother, it is like a second family," says Ilchenko.

Payne notes: "For me, my coach Sean Kelly is one of the most important people in the world, I have a huge amount of respect for him and vice-versa applies. I think that very important for anyone who wants to be successful. We understand each other so we know when to push things and when to back off."

The two rivals have a very different view when it comes to how they might react if banished to a desert island. "Im not of the suicidal type so I wont swim off in the direction of the unknown. That would be quite foolish," says Ilchenko. But Payne is game for the challenge: "I would have to give it go, what would be the use of swimming for 15 years of my life if I didnt try to swim to another island!"

Larisa Ilchenko (RUS) Vs Keri-Anne Payne (GBR)

Questions by Craig Lord, interviews and translations conducted by Craig Lord, Anna Kozina and Nickolai Dolgopolov. SwimNews is most grateful to Anna Kozina and Nickolai Dolgopolov, of the Rossiiskaya Gazeta in Russia. Nickolai Dolgopolov is also Vice-Chairman of the International Sports Writers Association (AIPS).


1. Describe what it felt like to line up for the first, historic, Olympic 10km marathon race - what emotions, what thoughts were racing - and then tell us what you felt like, physically and mentally, in the closing 200m or so of the race?

Larisa Ilchenko (RUS)    Keri Anne Payne (GBR)

You know, I felt a sense of responsibility: I had won eight World Champion titles. Making my appearance at the start I realized that I had to gain a medal. And that was why I felt a bit uneasy. About 200 metres from the finishing line, I was in third or fourth position. I couldn't tell definitely if I would win or not. Everything was decided in the last 50 metres. But in a really long run in, I didn't win it just by the mere touch, I won the race with a decisive advantage. I remember how eager I was to finish the race as fast as I could and to touch the yellow shield. After the finish I felt only boundless and borderless joy.

I was very nervous before the 10K at the Games. Everyone makes out that the Olympics is a meet like no other but it´s the same people and the same race . It took me a while to come to terms with that before the swim but once I did I relaxed a bit. The last 200m is the worst and best part of the race: you know you will be finished very soon but it hurts the most! I was just thinking about getting to the finish!



2. Much of your work is done in the pool and has long been high metreage/volume. But are there specific things that you do purely with a view to improving your marathon performance that you would not do if you stuck only to pool racing - and if so, what are

Larisa Ilchenko (RUS)    Keri Anne Payne (GBR)

First of all, our practices are characterised by considerable volumes. We are swimming several times more volume than some pool swimmers - approximately 20km per day. When we are preparing for the World Championships and Olympic Games, we swim even more than that.

I think it´s clear now that open water swimming isn´t about who is the fittest: it´s about who is the quickest in the last 1,000m, so speed is a big aspect in open water swimming which people don´t really think about. It´s not all about metres in training.



3. How often do you think of the rivals in your event - or is it a question of only focusing on yourself?

Larisa Ilchenko (RUS)    Keri Anne Payne (GBR)

I never think about rivals. It´s not in my character. I do not see opponents that could not be defeated. I never make idols of anybody and I'm trying not to copy anybody. But to tell the truth I do have a lot of respect for Edith Van Dyke. The Dutchwoman is a heroine of open water swimming. She won everything and anything that it was possible to win. But luckily I did manage to overtake her as far as the number of the serious awards gained is concerned.

I don´t really think about my race in training I think about what the session is and what I need to get out of it, so my focus you could say is just on myself.



4. Who are three of your biggest opponents and why do they stand out?

Larisa Ilchenko (RUS)    Keri Anne Payne (GBR)

I would single out those who were on the Olympic podium plus add two others who made the first five. It were not only occasional visitors to the ranks of the elite. They are still in the leading group. They are the principal opponents. And if we look back at the world championships, I would single out Kerri Anne Payne. Katusha Seliverstova was second over 10 km and I'm very happy for her. And don't forget the Brazilian Poliana Okimoto. But some more words about Seliverstova: if she had been better at the Russian Nationals that was the qualification for the world championships (Seville) that served in turn as the qualification event for the Olympic Games, then at the Beijing Olympics I would not have swum alone for my country and we would have had two Russians among the best 10.

Anyone who is in a race is a rival. Beyond that, I don't think about them.



5. At this stage in your career and given what you have already achieved, what motivates you - and are there specific ways in which you find motivation each and every day, through thick and thin?

Larisa Ilchenko (RUS)    Keri Anne Payne (GBR)

Put simply, I've regarded swimming, for years and years, as my principle job. And naturally we should approach any job seriously. But this is my favourite job. And it cannot be otherwise. I'm swimming since my early childhood. I adore water.

At the moment and for the last two years I have loved swimming, and specifically the training part because we have such a laugh at training and I really enjoy being in that environment. That´s my motivation."



6. What is the toughest training set you have ever done, why does it stand out (physically/mentally or both), and what mechanisms did you/do you employ to help you to endure?"

Larisa Ilchenko (RUS)    Keri Anne Payne (GBR)

I dare say it was our recent practice in Brazil. After two long months of rest I started swimming again. I practiced for only two months and then took a flight to Brazil for a three-week training camp. It was really tough. It wasn't easy at all to regain my former strength, to switch into the swimming system and to the preset schedule. And add to it my illness before the start of the Brazilian stage of the World Cup. I've got highmoritis (an ailment of the sinuses) … And I had to swim like that… (plus, see answer to question 2 and that reference to volume).

The biggest session I have done was a set of 18X800´s on 10 mins descending 1st to 6th X 3. Getting through that session was a case of knowing that it would be a great achievement to finish it.



7. The marathon is known for being physical in the boxing sense of the word, as opposed to the self-inflicted kind of physical? Can you prepare yourself for that, and if so, how do you do so, and have your strategies been successful?

Larisa Ilchenko (RUS)    Keri Anne Payne (GBR)

I don't appear at the start with the view that I will give everybody a beating: it is not an eye-for-eye or tooth-for-tooth battle. It's a bit different to that, for we are often warned that the judges´ decision wouldn´t be in our favour if we were to respond to someone else's blow or interjection. And that's why if I feel that someone is trying to give me a blow, to pinch me or touch me (in a deliberate way) I always trying to move aside.

When it comes to the "boxing" part, you have to go into a swim expecting to get hit. That´s the nature of open water swimming: you don´t have your own lane with a lane rope and you have 20-30 other girls trying to get to the same place as you. You just have to understand that it´s a part of the sport that can´t be stopped or helped. You also tend to know who to stay away from during races...



8. What are you looking forward to as far as training during the coming season is concerned - and what, if anything, are you dreading?

Larisa Ilchenko (RUS)    Keri Anne Payne (GBR)

The target of all swimmers is a unique one - the (possibly last) world championships in open water (as an event apart). To date these have also been held apart from the main world aquatics championships but there is talk that this may be the last time that happens: as far as I know they will be abolished and in the future we'll compete together with other swimmers once per two years (at the FINA world championships for all five sports). And that's the reason I'd like to get prepared for this last one and to have returned, to get back everything that was mine and remains mine. Somebody has borrowed from me that which is mine for a period of time (Larisa lost her world titles in Rome 2009 at a time when problems with her spine a shoulder left her shy of best form). Unfortunately I failed to fly with our doctor to Germany for medical examination as had been planned. We wanted to be treated there but somehow no final agreement had been made and it did not prove possible. So we'll make a second attempt in March. I was treated only in our city of Kislovodsk …in a sanatorium by ozonotherapy and other means. Now, thank God, everything is OK with my spine, with my shoulder. Though it wasn't easy with the spine in Brazil. But I'm looking forward to my future with optimism. I have many targets and it cannot be otherwise. For if its not like that, one should bring an end to a career in sport.

I´m just really looking forward to getting a really solid block of training in and getting fit. What I dread is getting ill during a training block and having to take time out of the water!



9. How much non-water training do you do and what form does it take (other sports, gym etc)?

Larisa Ilchenko (RUS)    Keri Anne Payne (GBR)

We practice 30 minutes in a gym three times per week - it is general physical training. We don't do weightlifting, no exercises with weights, no running. We have enough of a job to do in the water.

I do weights once a week, and before every evening session we do a 30 minute circuit and we also do yoga.



10. Describe your relationship with your coach(es) and its importance to preparing you as an athlete - and tell us what your coach means to you (what role does he play) on race day?

Larisa Ilchenko (RUS)    Keri Anne Payne (GBR)

I've been working with Vladimir Nickolaevitch Zakharov since I was 11 years old. So it makes ten years already. He has a chance to see me more often than my own mother, it is like a second family. His presence at competitions means much to me. At the Olympics I did not start the race alone but with my team - with the coach and with the doctor. They didn't leave me for a minute. I felt their support all the time and, due to all that, a sense of assurance was with me at all times. Success depends on both sides, and here the pupil and the coach are equal. Even if one is an outstanding athlete, if the coach gives him the wrong volume and the wrong method of coaching is used the athlete will never make it. And vice-versa: even if a coach is great but he has no pupil with the necessary talents, ambitions and self-assurance the coach will fail to adapt his own capabilities to the good-for-nothing disciple. That's why it's so important to find each other.

For me, my coach Sean Kelly is one of the most important people in the world, I have a huge amount of respect for him and vice-versa applies. I think that very important for anyone who wants to be successful. We understand each other so we know when to push things and when to back off. Sean doesn´t really have much to do on race day (apart from being nervous among his other tasks, perhaps - ed): I don´t do a pool warm-up so I don´t need timing but we have a talk before the race about tactics and discuss the race plan, then he walks the course (if he can) while I swim.



11. How important are parents, family and friends when it comes to you being the athlete that you are?

Larisa Ilchenko (RUS)    Keri Anne Payne (GBR)

Relatives and friends are important. I am having this long chat with you while I'm at the Russian Indoor Nationals in St. Petersburg. And my mother is calling me every day. It is the same picture if I'm somewhere far away on training camp. She is taking so close to heart how I'm feeling and how I'm swimming. It is so nice to feel such deep care from her. In spite of being far away from each other we are talking constantly on the phone. And I'm on the Internet sending and receiving all these e-mails with my friends. Naturally their support and their opinions mean so much to me. I did feel the greatest level of happiness when standing on the podium in Beijing: I felt it back home when I saw the happy faces of my friends. They were so happy and so proud of me. Only then did I realise what I had achieved. And let me add that I'm dating the swimmer of the national team Daniil Serebryannikov. It's very good when somebody so close to you is not far from your side in our long training sessions.

My family and boyfriend David Carry are very important to me. They have supported me throughout my career, through the bad times and the good times and I would not be where I am today if I didn´t have them. They have to sacrifice just as much as I do for me to be where I am today.



12. In the pool there is a ready room. It can be intense and tense. How does the assembly point and the line-up differ in open water (or how similar is it)?

Larisa Ilchenko (RUS)    Keri Anne Payne (GBR)

You know, it depends. At the last world championships, as well as at the last leg of the World Cup, we were lined up and the names were called: first the number, then name and family name, title of the participant and the country he represents. It's practically the same as in the swimming pool. And now the second part of your question. As we are usually competing on different water banks the changing rooms and other service rooms etc are in the temporary tents. The bio toilets are there also.

It is pretty similar to the call room: everyone eyeing everyone else but there are more distractions in open water call rooms because the referee of the race will talk to everyone before we swim to go through the race making sure we know which direction we swim in, how many laps and just to make sure everyone is ready to swim. The line-up is very different because you sometimes have to wait 5 minutes for everyone to be called out as there are anywhere between 10 and 50 people in a race.



13. Is there anything you must do as you approach the start of a race, or on race day, a habit, a ritual that forms part of preparing for performance (if rituals are part of your world)?

Larisa Ilchenko (RUS)    Keri Anne Payne (GBR)

No, I'm not talking to the pole like Yelena Isnbayeva (double Olympic pole vault champion for Russia) does. It seems to me that track-and fielders are more accustomed to such rituals as well as those athletes whose competitions are not that long in time as ours. But if a person believes in what he is doing, why not? Still I must admit that I have two mascots - ordinary simple bears, in Russia they are called Mishka. The first one was bought at the National Championships in Moscow because I liked him so much at first glance. Now he is looking a bit like a shabby oldie after all that travelling with me. The second bear - and this is a female toy bear and was presented to me by Daniil after the world championships of 2009. Both Mishkas are globetrotting the world with me without any leave of absence: no vacation time for them.

I don´t really have any rituals. It comes down to just making sure we have our gel packs in our costume and that we have been vaselined up so our costumes don´t rub during the race (this is essential for sea swims because of the salt water)



14. When did you first become aware of your rival in this exercise and what dimension has that rival brought to your own preparations?

Larisa Ilchenko (RUS)    Keri Anne Payne (GBR)

At the world championships, I couldn´t even imagine that somebody was capable of leaving me behind. At the 5km distance I was swimming to finish and was sure that I could win. But things like that do happen in life. Nobody could have imagined that my opponent would turn to be on the peak of the wave and I would remain below and that would prevent me from winning the race. But it happened that way. Nothing terrible happened. For I gave 100% and so my conscience is not pricked. And I´m not afraid of my rivals. But it all boils down to this truth: there are people out there capable of beating me. It is not a single person.

I'm pretty much aware of everyone and what they've done. I just make sure that I don´t overlook anyone: everyone in open water is a rival because every swim is different and some people are better at some swims than others.



15. What is your rival's strength - and what is yours?

Larisa Ilchenko (RUS)    Keri Anne Payne (GBR)

There are athletes who are very good in swimming 400m and 800m in the swimming pool. And among them sometimes I even see sprinters with an excellent finishing acceleration. Watching them working in the swimming pool during the competitions I clearly realise that they are ready for the tournament better then me. But they are losing to me as far as tactics are concerned and I´m glad that the situation is like that. The finishing rush is my advantage and it takes a lot of stamina to obtain this advantage. Not every swimmer is capable of doing it after 9km of hard work.

I don´t want to give all my secrets away!



16. Many can understand the thrill of a 100m free, the speed of it, and so forth. Marathons take a little longer. What is it about the marathon that attracts you, where is the thrill, what would you say makes this great sport?"

Larisa Ilchenko (RUS)    Keri Anne Payne (GBR)

I don´t consider marathon to be spectacular. Not everyone is eager to spend two hours on the tribune watching it. It´s for the good of our sport if a competition is going on in the rowing channel and the public sees the marathoner covering lap after lap. And what if the competition is taking place in the ocean and the audience is watching it from the stalls set on the bank: it´s not that interesting for a fan. But for me it´s much more thrilling to compete in the ocean than in the indoor swimming pool. It´s the nature, water, waves, fish of all types. Each time there are new conditions and new weather.

That´s a difficult one because it takes 2 hours to swim a 10k - but I haven´t done a swim yet that was boring. If you watched both the men´s and women´s 10k in Beijing, everyone I have spoke to about it has said how exciting it was and they couldn´t believe that a 2-hour race comes down to the last 100m.



17. Looking back at your own career so far, are there certain moments that stand out beyond all others - and if so, what are they and why (this can be racing, training, a moment in a relationship, a lesson, and a race result, whatever makes it for you)?

Larisa Ilchenko (RUS)    Keri Anne Payne (GBR)

It was my first 5km race in the sea. I was 14 years old and I was taken to Sochi to the Russian Nationals. The temperature of the water was 14 degrees C. I was so afraid. I won´t forget it in a hurry.

Beijing was amazing because of the result and the history we made by being the first 10k ever in an Olympic Games!



18. Conditions vary in open water - greatly. Can you describe the best and the worst of your experience - and what made them best and worst?

Larisa Ilchenko (RUS)    Keri Anne Payne (GBR)

The best conditions are in the Emirates in the city of Fudjero. There was a stage of the World Cup there last year. The water was so transparent and it was so nice - the temperature of the water was excellent and there were no jellyfish. The worst stage of the World Cup was in Chantu in China. The temperature was 30 degrees, the water was hot and the rays of the sun were like a real fire. And the tournament was so badly organised.

The worst has to be World Championships in Melbourne in 2007: we had to swim through thousands of jellyfish that were stinging us for the whole 2-hour swim! I didn´t enjoy that swim, as you can imagine. The best conditions were in Beijing: the water wasn´t too hot or too cold, the course was flat and still, which is like being in a pool.



19. If you could have five people round for dinner (anyone who ever lived), who would they be; why; and what would you serve them?

Larisa Ilchenko (RUS)    Keri Anne Payne (GBR)

I would never invite the dead for sure. If I had known English perfectly I would have invited Madonna. And somehow the name of Usain Bolt came into my head. Once we were in England and the manager and the organizer of the tournament was a man who also took care of runners. He talked a lot about Bolt and showed us his video. Bolt is a friendly and social person. So, I liked the image. Then Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie. I liked them madly not only as actors but as well as a couple. Our Russian show man Sergei Svetlakov from the comedy TV show is an outstanding entertainer. I don´t know him personally and to invite him would be an excellent chance to get on friendly terms with him.

I would have Louise Theroux, Steven Fry, Angelina Jolie, Peter Kay and David Carry, I would have to serve them something very British like sausage and mash!



20. You're banished to a desert island but you are allowed to take three things (and those cannot be another person) - what would you take and why - and dod you think you'd be tempted to swim for it without knowing how far to the the next island?

Larisa Ilchenko (RUS)    Keri Anne Payne (GBR)

The TV project called "The Last Hero" springs to mind. I would take a pot, matches and a huge machete to break my way through the jungles. I´m not of the suicidal type so I won´t swim off in the direction of the unknown. That would be quite foolish. I´d better try to survive on the island, to make friends with the local monkeys or even with the aborigines (other people are barred from the island in this game, so it would have to be just the monkeys).

I would have to give it go, what would be the use of swimming for 15 years of my life if I didn´t try to swim to another island; the 3 things I would take would have to be a knife, my iPod and a book on how to survive on a desert island! :)



21. What are your aspirations for 2010 and beyond to 2012?

Larisa Ilchenko (RUS)    Keri Anne Payne (GBR)

I´ve already mentioned my ambitions for the world championships (question 8). And then I´m trying not to look too far beyond that. It was the same before Beijing. Nobody is assured of anything in this life of ours. My aspirations don´t go further than tomorrow.

The Commonwealth Games are this year in Delhi so I´m hoping to make the pool team for that and to go to the open water World Championships in Canada too. Beyond that, London 2012 is obviously at the back of my mind - but there is a long time to go before that comes round and a lot can happen. For now, I´m focused on 2010.



Questions by Craig Lord, interviews and translations conducted by Craig Lord, Anna Kozina and Nickolai Dolgopolov. SwimNews is most grateful to Anna Kozina and Nickolai Dolgopolov, of the Rossiiskaya Gazeta in Russia. Nickolai Dolgopolov is also Vice-Chairman of the International Sports Writers Association (AIPS). Published in February 2010